Legislature(2023 - 2024)DAVIS 106
05/07/2024 03:00 PM House HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB236 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 236 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 236-GRANTS TO DISASTER VICTIMS
6:22:18 PM
CHAIR PRAX announced that the only order of business would be CS
FOR SENATE BILL NO. 236(FIN), "An Act relating to grants to
disaster victims."
6:23:03 PM
SENATOR JESSE KIEHL, Alaska State Legislature, as prime sponsor,
introduced SB 236 to the committee, explaining that the bill
expands and brings parity to Alaska's disaster assistance law.
He described natural disasters as a statewide issue in Alaska
and spoke about learning about some deficiencies in the current
disaster assistance program. He opined that Alaska is uncommon
among the states in that its residents help their fellow
Alaskans when "disasters knock them flat, even if Uncle Sam does
not." When the governor declares a disaster, Alaska can provide
disaster assistance. If the President declares a federal
disaster, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) provides
more resources and programs. Senator Kiehl described the
skilled and capable team at the Department of Military and
Veterans' Affairs (DMVA) in the Homeland Security Emergency
Management Division, lauding the work they do to help Alaska
disaster victims get on the road to recovery.
SENATOR KIEHL went on to say that the assistance provided to
homeowners is not available to all homeowners. If the disaster
damages a condo, the way Alaska's statutes are currently
written, the program can't help a condo owner who is assessed a
share of damage to the common property, for example, if there is
damage to the roof, the foundation, or the exterior wall, that
is part of the common property, and there is no state disaster
assistance available for the individual homeowner. He explained
that SB 236 fixes that, bringing straight parity such as the
relief provided to a single-family homeowner. Another issue he
discussed was the amount of disaster assistance provided. For
example, FEMA offers several programs which are capped at
$42,000. Alaska's relief currently provides $21,000, an amount
that has not kept up with inflation. The bill before the
committee raises that amount to $50,000. Senator Keihl spoke of
conversations with homeowners who said that 50,000 will not make
them whole. It is not the purpose of state level disaster
relief to make the homeowner whole; it is to help start the
process of getting back on their feet.
6:28:12 PM
CHAIR PRAX noted the sectional analysis for SB 236 was available
in the committee packet.
6:28:49 PM
CHAIR PRAX opened public testimony on SB 236. After ascertaining
there was no one who wished to testify, he closed public
testimony on SB 236
6:29:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS inquired about any type of analysis,
retrospectively or looking to Alaska's future, regarding types
of disasters, potential costs, and range of projections.
6:30:31 PM
SENATOR KIEHL responded that he did not have that information at
this time. He said there is no question that the number of
disasters has been rising, especially wildfires. The DMVA has
looked into hypothetical numbers, so he deferred to the
department.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS requested information about cases where
there may be the risk of repeated disaster and what process, if
any, and what analysis the department uses to determine whether
it is better to rebuild in place or relocate to a safer
location.
SENATOR KIEHL explained that the department does not have
requirements that he is aware of. Many local governments use
their planning authorities, and there are certain federal
programs which reward planning that reduces the risk of disaster
such as flood mapping to make types of insurance available at
attainable costs. He defered to the department for details
about potential counseling for individual Alaskans.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS referred to a previous hearing where the
committee heard about disincentives of people to, for example,
map out a landslide hazard because it might make swathes of
homes uninsurable. He spoke of the increased risk of landslides
in Southeast and wildfires in Anchorage and in the Interior and
wondered if the bill had prompted conversations regarding the
role of the state and local governments in these planning
activities to balance awareness and prevention versus making
huge swathes of homes uninsurable because of an elevated risk.
SENATOR KIEHL responded that it was a large and overarching
discussion. The current state law says these are local
decisions, although the state requires comprehensive plans from
any municipality that has planning powers. That is an
appropriate place for communities to work on those difficult
questions. Many communities' plans and zoning powers address
high hazard areas and prohibit building or reducing the density
of building in those high hazard areas. He pointed out that the
municipalities have to work on and decide with their citizens
the painful issues regarding existing neighborhoods and private
property rights as well as the economic and potential public
safety impact.
6:34:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER called Senator Kiehl's attention to the
fiscal note and asked for help in reconciling some numbers.
SENATOR KIEHL responded that it was a rounding error on his part
and that, precisely stated, it would be half the maximum amount
the federal program pays. The federal program amount is indexed
to inflation and uses a Consumer Price Index (CPI) inflater. He
stated that the DMVA would have information much closer to the
actual dollar amount.
6:35:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS stated that in the longer term, he hopes
the state invests a reasonable amount of money for helping local
governments to plan for changing conditions as well simply
compensating homeowners after an event has happened.
SENATOR KIEHL said he appreciated the insights concerning the
topic and acknowledged that there is no community in Alaska that
will not struggle with that question.
6:36:31 PM
CHAIR PRAX questioned whether this bill was the same concept as
insurance and whether federal flood or earthquake insurance
would apply to the situation that occurred in Juneau when the
Mendenhall River flooded.
SENATOR KIEHL compared insurance and disaster relief funds,
pointing out that they are similar in that both occur after the
event. However, he reiterated that the disaster relief program
is not an attempt to make someone whole. In addition, it is not
limited by risks that are calculated whereas insurance does
calculate risks. He referred to an earlier conversation with
the director of the Division of Insurance that losses Alaskans
suffer in natural disasters are things against which a person
cannot insure such as landslides or movement of the earth that
might undercut a foundation. In the case of a flood where the
water does damage and goes away, a person is covered, but if it
moves the soil and your house falls, that is not covered. The
director of insurance also noted that disaster insurance is not
motivation to be underinsured because the amounts available
cannot make a person whole, and many of the harms that might
occur are not insurable.
6:40:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked the DMVA legislative liaison whether
it would be duplicative to ask the DMVA to provide the
legislature with a menu of options to assist local governments
for mitigation and response planning including ensuring
reconstruction following a disaster and minimizing structure
risk where there is a high likelihood of recurring disaster.
ANGELA LAFLAMME, Legislative Liaison, Department of Military &
Veterans' Affairs, explained that the department does work with
communities that request help on planning for preparedness for
disasters and also after disaster response to help prevent
things from happening again. All the mitigation funding in
these instances comes from the federal mitigation plan; the
state has no mitigation planning.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked for clarification regarding whether
the state helps communities plan for damage from recurring
events.
MS. LAFLAMME responded that there is not mitigation in disaster
response which instead focuses on returning the infrastructure
to pre-disaster condition.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS presented a hypothetical scenario in which
the disaster relief team responded to a landslide in a community
and saw a slope with a similar angle and vegetation which would
potentially have a high risk of sliding. He asked whether the
MLVA team would be able to help a local government mitigate
potential future disasters.
MS. LAFLAMME responded that the department can do that when a
community asks for it, although it does not proactively go to
communities. She noted that there is a preparedness and
planning process through [a section] within the department's
Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management (HSEM)
that can help the community.
6:42:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER commented on his understanding that DMVA
has disaster relief and response and that it seems to be a
passive response. He further noted that the Department of
Natural Resources does have the Seismic Hazard Safety Council
which tries to identify areas of seismic activity to recommend
places for building to try to mitigate future disasters. In
addition, as a response to the landslides in Southeast Alaska,
the Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys has tried to
map areas where the soil saturation, the slope, and other
factors might contribute to landslides.
6:43:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS addressed a question to the bill sponsor
regarding whether there is value in adding language asking the
department to come back to the legislature regarding how it can
better support local governments to work on planning mitigation
where there is a high likelihood of future disasters.
MS. LAFLAMME restated that the HSEM can work on that type of
planning, and she offered to speak with Representative Fields
further on the issue.
6:44:26 PM
CHAIR PRAX explained that he was troubled by possibility that
the bill might create what is referred to in the insurance world
as a morale hazard as opposed to a moral hazard. He gave
several examples and said there is a huge problem to address.
He opined that Band-aid approaches do not address the whole
picture which includes extreme risks and asked what the
estimated average expenditure over time would be for the MLVA to
provide disaster response and disaster relief.
MS. LAFLAMME responded that she did not know what the average is
over the years, pointing out that each disaster is different and
there are many variables such as how many people are affected;
how many people qualify under the individual assistance program;
and whether or not a federal disaster is also declared.
6:48:13 PM
SENATOR KIEHL provided budgetary perspective, stating that in
recent years the state's disaster fund expenditures have
averaged approximately $30 million per year. He pointed out
that this amount increased tremendously year-over-year citing a
recent year when the costs were about $5 million and another
when they were over $50 million. He explained that this funding
helped Alaskans start to get back on their feet but did not
provide the type of significant relief offered by the federal
government. He emphasized the complexity of the issue and said
he could not give the committee a thorough fiscal analysis
because of the many variables. He provided specific examples of
federal disaster programs. The state can afford to pay a little
bit of assistance for actual amounts up to the limits for things
like an owner-occupied home. He said the bill before the
committee increases the amount a little, and if the home is a
condo, the situation is treated equitably to someone in a
single-family home. He stated that the bill does not address
the hardening of communities and homeowners against potential
disasters, citing examples from districts around the state. He
agreed with Chair Prax that more preparedness planning is good.
He concluded that when a disaster hits, this bill extends help,
and a little help goes a long way.
6:51:57 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 6:51 p.m. to 6:53.
6:53:08 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE moved to report CSSB 236(FIN) out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSSB 236(FIN) was
reported out of the House Health and Social Services Standing
Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 236 Fiscal Note MVA-DHSEM.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 Support Letters (2.28.24).pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 Version R.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 CAI Testimony.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 Thorne Support.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 Allmeroth Testimony.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |
| SB 236 Neseth_Redacted.pdf |
HHSS 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM |
SB 236 |